After having a very heated discussion on gay marriage on one Facebook thread and a very respectful and adult discussion on another, I came to the realization that this topic cannot be discussed by people with differing opinions. Not only are the two sides not on the same page, they aren't even in the same book!!! Stay with me here...
Normally, in a discussion on gay marriage, the pro side says "Good for the gays"! and the con side says, "Bad for society/family"! The discussion then turns into a slinging of names, accusations of homophobia, being judgemental, and hate, etc. For the record, in EVERY one of my discussions, my dissenting opinion was attacked and I was called names. I was chastised for not being tolerant, yet my view was not tolerated.
This issue has two distinct ways to look at it, in my opinion. First, there is the secular side, secondly...there is the religious side. Let's look at each one.
Gay marriage...secular sided: When you look at gay marriage from a secular point of view, it is very hard to argue that it should not be allowed. In fact, I am not sure I could come up with one. Do two people of the same sex have the right to enter into a legal contract that will allow them to share medical benefits, property, and other legal stuff just like heterosexual couples can? You bet! I have no problem with two men or two women calling themselves a couple and having the other on their insurance or whatever. I am not sure I see a lack of equality anywhere, since civil unions have been around in many states for quite a while, but yes; I do think that if a gay couple wants to enter into a civil union, they should be allowed to. From a secular, contractual point of view, it is OK. After all, all marriages start out downtown with a marriage license as a legal contract and are, in essence, nothing more than an agreement for the exchange of goods and services between the two parties who signed that contract.
Gay Marriage...religion sided: Here is where the big problem begins. Most religions do not look at gay marriage as being proper. I am going to speak from the Christian view since I am a Catholic. Marriage, from a religious standpoint, is not simply looked at as a contract, but a sacred covenant between a man and a woman and God. Before you get all excited, I understand that two men or two women can love each other just as strongly as a man and a woman can. That is not what is at question. There are Biblical references to man and woman: The first to be quoted is always Genesis 1:27-28 to paraphrase, "He made them male and female and told them to be fruitful and multiply. There are also references to the sinfulness of homosexuality...not "being" homosexual, but acting on it. Leviticus 18:22 states, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. Both of these quotes are from the Old Testament, so cannot be written off as strictly Christian rules. There are many more references throughout the bible which condemn homosexual behavior, but not the homosexual.
From a religious view, marriage exists for procreation, thus the reason the Catholic Church does not support birth control and especially abortion. If you cannot (health issues aside) create children with a sexual act, the marriage is useless. I will not go into sterile parents and other side issues here.
The point is that you cannot have two men have sex and produce a child. God's intent for marriage cannot be met. Imagine if Adam and Eve had been Adam and Steve. In a few years the human race would have been gone. Sex is not meant to be a recreational sport but to be a unifying act between a husband and wife...an act of intimacy...that opportunity for the "two to become one". Thus, many Christians are OK with there being civil unions for homosexual couples, allowing them to have the same secular rights as heterosexual couples. However, it is when homosexual couples want that union to be called a marriage, or to be performed by a minister, that many Christians cry foul.
There is also the debate about the family structure and the need for both parents. I do not believe that a child will do just as well with two dads or two moms as he/she would with one of each. A girl needs a mother to learn girl stuff and a boy needs a father to learn boy stuff. We have gender specific roles and ways we do things for a reason...because God wanted it that way.
You will notice that the number of words needed to support gay marriage in the secular sense was far less than the number used to show why, religiously, gay marriage should not be allowed. As I said in the beginning, their really isn't an argument to be made against gay marriage if you look at it strictly from a secular view. Yet there is a strong argument, with much Biblical and historical/societal reference to back the argument against.
I do not believe this is a topic that can ever be discussed without agreeing first about which side of the debate you are going to discuss...secular or religious. And in order to have the debate from a religious standpoint, the person on the side of gay marriage should really be religious and believe in their faith. Otherwise, it is a useless talk.
Just some daily ramblings about anything and everything in life that I feel like talking about. No real agenda, but eventually you will get my angle.
Wednesday, June 29, 2011
Thursday, June 16, 2011
It Must Be Me!
Once again, a dissenting view on a topic has caused me to be accused of "bashing" someone. I am a bit confused as to how a person, when presented with a comment, makes a statement contrary to that comment and is called names for their view.
I guess I am wondering when debate between sides went away and the dissenting side became "bashers". Do they still have debate teams in high schools or are they "bashing" teams. When candidates for the Presidency have debates, they disagree about the other person's view on different things but aren't considered to be bashing them. Why has common disagreement over an issue become grounds for name calling.
Is there a standard protocol for Facebook? Am I not allowed to comment on a friends post unless I agree with it? Is Facebook, a social network, not the "proper place" for discussions concerning politics, religion, or societal issues? If not on Facebook, where?
I don't want all my friends to agree with me all the time. Conversations get boring if there is no one to talk a differing opinion. To my Facebook friends who think I'm nothing more than a troll and looking to pick a fight....I am sorry you feel that way, but I will not stop. I would hope that you would engage in a meaningful discussion and keep the name calling for the playground. I enjoy having all my Facebook friends that I have and hate losing any over disagreements on topics. Sometimes, it is best to agree to disagree.
Does anyone else run into this problem? If not...then it must be me.
People post many things on Facebook. We tell people how we feel each day, how the weather is where we are, and sometimes even all the little, trivial things we need to get done that day. Some even make statements that are political, religious, societal, or even all of those rolled into one. Then, they are surprised when someone they are "friends" with, comments on that status with something not in line with their way of thinking. Why do people make any statements if they are not actually looking for a reaction? When we make the comment about how our cute kitty just caught its first bird, we are looking for comments. It would seem to me that if you do not want anyone commenting on the status you just posted on a political issue, stick to the status that reads, "got up, ate cereal, lots of laundry to do before class". Hard to get into a debate over that one!
Is there a standard protocol for Facebook? Am I not allowed to comment on a friends post unless I agree with it? Is Facebook, a social network, not the "proper place" for discussions concerning politics, religion, or societal issues? If not on Facebook, where?
I have been called a "troll" because I comment on posts that strike me. The accusation being that I do it just to make people angry. Not true. Usually, it is because I consider what the person has said to be flawed in some way...often times, just plain factually wrong. So if I comment with the opposite view, isn't that allowed? Is that why Facebook only has a "Like" button?
I enjoy good debate, discussion, argument, whatever you want to call it, on many topics. Unfortunately, it seems most people want to place things in their statuses and then not have to defend their position. So why put it there in the first place. If that's the case, see suggested status above.
To me, Facebook is a place for a person to share as much of themselves as they want. Anything from kids' activities, to relationship problems, to personal views, to how they felt about the American Idol results. If you put it all out there, you have to be ready for someone to respond in a way you don't like.
Does anyone else run into this problem? If not...then it must be me.
Wednesday, June 8, 2011
The Tone of Voice
This poem was provided during a marriage seminar I attended. It is a great reminder that it is not just the words we use with our spouses, our children, our friends, but also how we use those words. It is so easy to slip into a voice that is too stern for what we are trying to convey to a child. A well-intended comment to a child can sometimes come across as anything other than that...just by the tone of voice. I battle this one often. You want to simply tell a child "no", but it comes out worse. You call them to supper and the child doesn't want to come because your voice has that "tone". One of my children today was asked if he understood what I had just said. He said yes so quietly I did not hear him. When I asked again, he answered in such a way as to sound like he was telling me, "You fool, can't you hear me as I stand next to you?" His tone to me was disrepectful, though I know he did not mean it that way. Ironically, we were having a conversation about the tone of voice. Please enjoy this poem....and be aware of your tone of voice.
THE TONE OF VOICE
Author Unknown
It's not so much what you say
As the manner in which you say it;
It's not so much the language you use
As the tone in which you convey it:
"Come Here," I sharply said,
And the child cowered and wept.
"Come Here," I said - -
He looked and smiled
And straight to my lap he crept.
Words may be mild and fair
And the tone may pierce like a dart;
Words may be soft as the summer air
But the tone may break my heart;
For words come from the mind
Grow by study and art - -
But tone leaps from the inner self
Revealing the state of the heart.
Whether you know it or not,
Whether you mean or care,
Gentleness, kindness, love, and hate,
Envy, anger, are there.
Then, would you quarrels avoid
And peace and love rejoice?
Keep anger not only out of your words --
Keep it out of your voice.
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